Sprawl #3 176 x 246 mm, 48 pages Sprawl is a new Nottingham-based indie mag dedicated to DIY subcultures, music and art. Available both online and in print, and taking inspiration from the scrappy punk fanzines of the late 70s and early 80s, inside you’ll primarily find conversations with scenesters old and new. After hours photographer Mischa Haller sets the tone of this third issue, which features a shot from his recently published photobook ‘Not Going Home’—an ode to 90s club culture—on the cover. Inside, he reflects on his early career, the evolution of the dance floor following seismic shocks such as the collapse of communism and 9/11, as well as what remains once the lights go up. Also featured: Sonic Youth guitarist and vocalist Lee Ranaldo, English rock band Ulrika Spacek, graphic artists Steph Dutton and Imarni Boyer-Nugent, Canadian collective Crack Cloud, and more. Words: MagCulture
Ciccone Youth took its name from Madonna, and the project covered her music while also featuring collaborators like Mike Watt and J. Mascis. Thurston described it as a way to 'break down barriers between the underground and those who had graduated to the mainstream'. How do you think Ciccone Youth collapsed those distinctions without compromising the downtown ethos?
Lee: For us, it happened at a very particular moment. I think that record and Daydream Nation were done back to back. Daydream Nation felt like the culmination of everything we'd learned through Evol, Bad Moon Rising and Sister, and by then we really knew how to work together in an amazing way.
At the same time, in late-80s New York, hip hop was becoming a huge force, and we were early fans of it. When we were working on Daydream Nation, Public Enemy were across the hall from us, which was a big thrill. We felt that rap and what we were doing were two strands of urban folk music, one coming out of the Bronx, the other out of lower Manhattan.
We were enthusiastic about what hip hop musicians were doing, and Martin Bisi, who'd worked with both avant-garde artists and hip hop acts, helped open that up for us. We genuinely liked Madonna, Prince and Springsteen, as well as all the more underground things, so none of that crossover felt contradictory.
We started sharing our enthusiasm for Madonna with Mike Watt, who was also a big Madonna fan. We loved the Minutemen so much. When we first started going to California, we began hanging out with him and getting to know those guys; we'd seen plenty of their shows. I don't know exactly how it started, but we both wanted to cover Madonna songs.
Mike covered 'Burning Up', and we did 'Into the Groovey' at Martin Bisi's studio, with him helping with the drum programming and all that stuff. After those covers, we thought, 'Let's make a whole album like this.' We booked studio time without really having songs, just some rhythm tracks, and made noise over them. It didn't turn into a hip hop record, but it did become a pretty experimental one for us.
It's really the only time we played around that much with rhythm machines and studio construction, because usually we were a band that worked songs out in a room over months and then went in and recorded them.
In Conversation /
There was also a personal layer to it: reaching out to Mike Watt after D. Boon's death. How did blending that intimate purpose with playful, pop-inflected experiments reflect Sonic Youth's broader approach to friendship and cross-pollination within the scene?
Lee: We were friends with all those guys, and we saw them play a bunch when they first came to New York. Then, when we started going out to California, we'd see them play there too. It was pretty intense when D. Boon died. Actually, we were playing in LA with Swans in this big warehouse on the night he died. I was playing through his amps the night he died.
We didn't bring amps across the country, and the amp I was using had 'Minutemen' written on the side. It was D.'s amp. The next morning, we heard that he'd died out in the desert in this van accident. And D. and Mike were like childhood buddies, so it hit Mike really hard, and for a while it seemed like he wasn't even going to do music any more, you know? So we were constantly checking in with him. We felt really concerned for his wellbeing in that period, and I think the first thing that happened was that he came to New York while we were making Evol.
There's this song I sang, 'In the Kingdom #19', and it was a pretty experimental track that we'd kind of fooled around with in rehearsal, but we didn't really have it together, and we were just going to finish it in the studio. I think all three of us were playing guitar on it, but we asked Mike to come in and play bass. I think it was one of the very first music things he did after D. Boon died. So he played on that song, 'In the Kingdom'. He came to Martin Bisi's studio and played on it with us, and then sometime after that he formed Firehose with this guy Ed from Ohio, and we took them out on some of their first tours together.
We did this tour called the 'Flaming Telepaths' tour and went around the US, and I think it was Mike's first tour since the Minutemen had stopped. So we were kind of instrumental in a few things that, I think, helped Mike get back on his feet in that period.
The Madonna fixation and the whole Ciccone Youth thing was really just another extended step in that, but it started with 'In the Kingdom', and that was in '85 or something like that. The next year we did Sister, and then we went on this tour with Firehose, the 'Flaming Telepaths' tour. Mike's a dear friend. I was emailing with him this week, actually, for the first time in a little while. I think we formed a bond with him that was just really strong.