Photo: Lorraine Phillips absorption of the visual arts. There's so much that is not boxed, and not just in one form. Folklore, for me, is lots of different places and lots of different people all finding very similar ways of voicing or sounding or expressing, and you can see that blend across the world. There are moments where you go, 'ah yes, that is very distinctly from there, but there are many moments where you just listen to something that doesn't have a name, or a country, or a flag attached to it, and you go 'ah! I don't know where that sound comes from!'
That's the exciting thing, the non-binaryness of that. Clair quickly picks up Carli's train of thought: 'Being a non-binary person is a gender thing but I guess it's also very much a political position!
The queering of folk music is important for many reasons. There is still, unfortunately, an uncomfortable association that gets made between folklore and the far right. Nick Griffin famously tried to co-opt folk music for the BNP way back in 2010, leading to the compilation album Folk Against Fascism being released in response, from participants including Martin Simpson, June Tabor, and Christy Moore. More recently, Mumford and Sons' Winston Marshall was widely criticised after he praised alt- right commentator Andy Ngo's book Unmasked: Inside Antifa's Radical Plan to Destroy Democracy. And beyond folk music specifically, there has been a growing trend amongst the alt right to attempt to invoke traditional folk mythologies in defence of white supremacy.
All of these things are quickly shouted down, but rarely is the ugliness interrogated with any great seriousness. More often, it is dismissed, like a family quickly shushing the 'one bad apple' whom they still keep inviting to dinner. 'People are attracted to folk music for very different reasons. A lot of the people who were involved in setting up the folk revival of the '60s and '70s were super socialist. You had the trippy hippies in one direction, and the hardcore Marxists, and they ganged up to create these clubs, but what happens with folk clubs is they tend to attract nostalgic nationalists, Clair explains. "But the thing about folk heritage is, it's for everyone. There's plenty of disgusting nationalist crap in the folk archives, partly because the establishment was paying people to put it out there. I think the point is to talk about it, and also to make fun of how bad the nationalist, revivalist, nostalgic music is, because it's always derivative and predictable, whereas weird stuff remains weird forever.
Perhaps one of the reasons Lunatraktors can comfortably and confidently mine these deeper questions and notions out of the genre they're working in is because they are performing it outside of the traditional settings, those being folk clubs. They're still a bit resistant to us, Carli says, before telling a story about one club who declined to book them on account of their having a 'no drums' policy. While some of the folk circuit are now catching up, it's in other spaces where their music has found its home first cabaret nights, art galleries, gay clubs, village fetes with children crawling across the stage, TED talks. At the start of our conversation, Clair explains their recent involvement with the Ten Songs From Lar project, a joint project from The Historic Dockyard Chatham and The Rochester Guildhall Museum for which ten artists were invited to create audio responses to a bronze Lar, essentially a Roman figurine dating from 200 AD thought to be household guardian deities. 'We've developed a sideline in making weird time travel music, they say. I put it to them that playing this material to audiences who maybe aren't as familiar with it can lead to new responses, and new life breathed into it.
*Seeing these songs in a gallery context, they become intensely political and interesting, which they are in the folk club of course, but it's less obvious, Clair says, 'We really want to include everyone. We want to make music you can tap your foot to, for people to move with moods. People are put off by folk music, I think, in the same way as classical music. It can feel quite claggy Carli then leaps in, their voices often overlapping throughout the course of our conversation as one thread of an idea is picked up by the other and woven into something new. 'There's a distance instantly created in folk clubs because you can see the musician with their instrument, and they're clearly very good, while you don't have an instrument in the audience - there's a big, quite