January 1978 - Modern Drummer - Tony Williams

• Published Charterly
• MODERN DRUMMER
• A Contemporary Publication Exclusively for Drummers
• In this issue
• TONY WILLIAMS:
• EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
• LARRIE LONDIN:
• NASHVILLE SESSION KING
• FUNK STYLIST
• DAVID GARIBALD
• SHOP HOPPIN'
• DRUM SHOPS USA
• DRUM COLLECTING AND RESTORING
• PETER MAGADINI
• ON POLYRHYTHMS
• TESTING AND SELECTING CYMBALS
• VOL. 2- NO. 1

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Tony Williams

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• Outfit

Just what is a Tony Williams? Many of his admirers have described his style as "free", "he doesn't really play rudimental things", "he's loose", "there's something out of the ordinary about what he does", "it's different." If those descriptions don't tell you what a Tony Williams is, permit me to drop a few names on you: Alan Dawson, Herbie Hancock, Jackie

McLean, John

Mc- Laughlin, Larry Young and Miles Davis. Dawson was Anthony Williams' first teacher when Tony was nine, having moved to Boston from his native Chicago. Early gigs with Jackie McLean led him to the infamous Miles Davis Quintet of the early sixties, which included Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Wayne Shorter. John

McLaughlin was a Davis "muse", as was Larry Young; add Tony, and you had the first Lifetime, the threesomes group name from the title track of an album. There were other major jazz figures criss-crossing Tony's comet-like tail. When Columbia records had the idea of reuniting that famous Miles Davis group for a Newport Jazz Festival in New York in 1976, Tony, Herbie, Ron and Wayne made it, but fearless leader did not. Freddie Hubbard - probably the major trumpet voice on the scene at the moment replaced

Miles. The quintet dubbed V.S.O.P. (Very Special Onetime Performance) - was born. A double pocket LP came of the NJF gig; a reprise tour was organized and a second LP recorded. Now residing in the Bay area of San Francisco, Tony is currently in the studio polishing up the group he fronts in preparation for a new album. In the meantime, he tours for short spurts within a short radius of his home, "to give the group some work, and make them more self-assured when we get into the studio." The interview was done during a casual long distance hook-up between the coasts. It was an "I've got all afternoon" affair, with no ego infringements whatsoever.

W A L D : Let's start from right now, the new record and the new group. W I L L I A M S : We haven't gone into the studio yet. We've played some local dates around the coast. At the moment we have Gerry Mule and Mike Hoffman on guitars, Paul Potyen keyboards, and Mike Formanek, bass. We play some of the tunes from Million

Dollar Legs, some from the Believe It album; we're even playing one song from Ego. W A L D : Why the west coast as home base? W I L L I A M S : I'm on the west coast to enjoy it. It's a personal move, having lived in New York for fourteen years. I've never really lived anywhere else on TONY WILLIAMS by ARAN WALD my own. I lived at home until I was sixteen. New York was my first and only stop. It's not like I'm running away from New York; I love it. It's just that I thought it was time for a change. I chose San Francisco because it has seasons, and I like the changes. I always like changes. W A L D : You've been playing drums since you were . W I L L I A M S : Nine. W A L D : What was your first set of drums like? W I L L I A M S : An old Radio King set. It consisted of a very large bass drum, 28 or 30 inches, and a 16" tom that was mounted on the bass. It was a very old type of set, probably made in the early forties. There was also a snare and a hihat. The hi-hat cymbals were almost all bell. The bell used up more space than the flat section. They were only about 12 or 13 inches, with this huge bell - about nine inches. I got rid of those pretty quickly. WALD: When did you move up to the big time sets?

W I L L I A M S : I had the Radio Kings for about three years. My father had bought them for me. I got my first job at eleven or twelve years old, and it paid pretty well - for a kid. Thirty dollars for three nights work, and steady work, too. I saved twenty dollars of each weeks pay, and with the help of my mother, I bought my first Gretsch set. W A L D : The start of a long association, right? W I L L I A M S : Yes, right from the beginning. I was working at a club in Cambridge, Massachusetts and I bought a silver sparkle set, the exact same outfit that Max played. I haven't played anything other than Gretsch since. W A L D : Have you ever had formal lessons? WILLIAMS: After about four or five years on my own, I took lessons with Alan Dawson. Private lessons. I never did play in school because there were no musical facilities in my high school. Now, this was Boston in the late 50's, remember? Before the riots. The trouble there now due to busing - was even heavier then. Consequently, I didn't play in school. I'll tell you though; I played drums outside of school all the time. I left high school to play drums. I started playing around Boston and became house drummer with a trio. We'd work with the guest artists coming in from out of town; famous players. Jackie McLean came through, and he liked the way I played. He asked me to go to New York with him, and well, you know the rest. WALD: That must have been heavy training; cutting shows for all those people. WILLIAMS: Yes, it was rough. But you got to play for a lot of different acts. I guess it's somewhat like studio playing in that regard. W A L D : Who were you listening to in those years? WILLIAMS: I was listening to Miles, the Jazz Messengers, Trane, Rollins. WALD: All those Prestige and Blue Notes W I L L I A M S : .

and the Riversides. WALD: Did all those horn players have much of an influence on you? W I L L I A M S : Sure, of course. Miles was a big influence, years before I went with him. But I was also listening to classical music and living the life of a teenager, and that included the rock 'n' roll of the day. The Clovers, Drifters, Dion and the Belmonts. That was all going on in my regular life. WALD: What about drummers? W I L L I A M S : There was a lot going on at the time. You still had the bop drummers around; Roach, Blakey, Kenny Clarke, as well as the rock drummers with their heavy-handed beats. I first started listening to drummers around

One corner of the repair department where all types of major and minor repair work is aptly handled.

Latin-American percussion section.

Trap cases piled to the ceiling fill this area, which also acts as a great relaxation spot for rapping drummers.

LARRIE LONDIN:

Nashville USA a virtual beehive of recording activity. Literally tons of recorded music pour from its boundaries each and every year. The mainstay of this fast paced, multi-million dollar musical mecca is the recording session musician, and drummer Larrie Londin is one of the busiest of the unsung musical heroes in the industry; rated as one of the most in demand session drummers of the elite Nashville studio scene. Larrie may well be one of the most recorded drummers in all music, heard by every person who's ever listened to any form of popular music. A heavy-set, yet gentle and personable man, Larrie at age 34, has made more than a comfortable living sitting confidently behind his multiple tom, double bass drum set-up, backing a mind boggling array of musical personalities; Boots Randolph, Chet Atkins. Jerry Reed, Glen Campbell, Perry Como, Elvis Presley, Mac Davis, Trini Lopez, Johnny Mathis, Roy Clark, Eddy Arnold, Isaac Hayes, Howard Roberts, Olivia Newton-John, Mel Tilles and Bobby Goldsboro to name a few. He's performed on the Dinah Shore, Glen Campbell, Merv Griffin, Johnny Carson, Tony Orlando and Captain Tennille TV shows, and his articulate rhythmic pulsations have been heard by anyone who's ever turned on a radio or TV via the catchy commercial jingles of Double Mint Gum, Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Pizza Hut, Ford, Mercury, Colgate and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Catching Larrie in a moment of musical inactivity is no easy task, yet Joe Buerger - MD's correspondent in St. Louis - managed to slow him down long enough to get our story immediately following an informative three hour drum clinic for Pearl Drums at the Fred Pierce Studio Drum Shop in St. Louis. Larrie Londin is one of the most proficient professionals on the music scene today; a drummer who has truly learned the importance of versatility and restraint, earning himself the title of undisputed Nashville session king.

M D : HOW DOES T H E L A R R I E L O N D I N STORY BEGIN? LL:

Well, I was born in Norfolk, Virginia in 1943, but I was raised in M i a m i , Florida until I was fifteen. At fifteen, I went on the road with a group called the "Tornadoes". Out of the "Tornadoes" came a group known as the "Headliners". We were artists and studio staff players for Motown in Detroit, and a lounge act working opposite Louie Prima, "Gaylord and the Holidays", and people who were real big in Nevada at the time. From the Motown thing, we tried to get records out. When the group was formed, I played guitar. My brother told me what a bad guitar player I was, and said I had to do something else. I liked drums, so I started playing them. The guitar player in the group was also a drummer, and he showed me where to kick the band. The more involved I got, the more practicing and listening I did. We worked many resort areas, along with sessions for Motown. MD: WHO WAS YOUR E A R L I E S T D R U M M I N G INFLU- ENCE? LL:

The first drum clinic I ever attended was a Gene Krupa clinic. He gave such a great, great clinic. Naturally, he played his famous, "Sing, Sing, Sing" tom-tom solo. But then, he went into a thing I still can't do to this day. He played his hihat and his ride at the same tempo, then he played a paradiddle between his left hand and bass drum very slow and open while the time stayed the same on his ride cymbal and hi-hat. He would gradually speed up the paradiddle until it surpassed the time on the ride cymbal, and then he'd slow the paradiddle back down. He played the paradiddle between his hand and foot as fast as you or I would with our hands. Everyone went crazy and ran to him for his autograph. Here was this distinguished looking man, salt and pepper hair, immaculate suit, talking to all those people. All I could do was sit there. I couldn't believe I actually got to see the man. Eventually, I got to meet and talk with him. He was such a great, great man! Gene Krupa was the man who pushed me over the edge! I knew what I had to do. There was nothing else for me. MD: WHO W E R E SOME OF YOUR O T H E R I N F L U E N C E S BESIDES G E N E ? LL:

Louie Bellson, Sonny Payne, Joe Morello, and Ed Shaughnessy were big influences on me. When I was working with the "Headliners", backing Vaughn Monroe in Nevada, Louie Bellson was playing right up the street. I used to beg Vaughn to let me off early so I could go see him. Finally, one night we got off early, and I ran up the street as fast as I could. My wife and I went into the club and actually got to talk to Louie. When Louie got back on stage, he announced that he was going to play a solo for Larrie Londin and his wife. This was another whole trip for me. Everything he played was so smooth. Everything was open. It sounded like single strokes, but he wasn't working hard. After the show, I asked him how he could play singles that fast and make it look so easy. His reply was, "I'm not playing singles, Larrie." ( L A U G H T E R ) You see, he was using combinations of doubles and singles. Louie sat down and showed me some of his patterns, and this changed my thinking about so-called "chop exercises". Much of it goes back to the rudiments. I would have to say, though, that the main ingredient I admire in Gene, Louie, Sonny Payne, Joe Morello, and Ed Shaughnessy is the feel they give the band. You can be a fantastic soloist, and not do a thing for the band. You have to give the band that F E E L ! It goes back to that old saying, "It's not how MUCH you play, but what you DON'T play." Louie is the world's greatest time-keeper! MD: HOW DID YOU B R E A K INTO THE N A S H V I L L E R E C O R D I N G SCENE? LL:

We were working as a group in Fort Worth, Texas at the Colonial Country Club playing promotions for golf tournaments. Chet Atkins, Boots Randolph, and people like that would come up to play the Pro-Am's. When I was getting ready to leave Motown in '69, Chet and Boots made me an offer to move to Nashville. I went, not thinking of studio work,

Nashville Session King by JOE BUERGER but just to do road jobs. I played the "Festival of Music" show for about 2 years. When I left the show, I went to work for Jerry Reed making tape copies for about $100 per week. Then he decided to put a group together. We had a record out called "Amos Moses", followed by "When You're Hot, You're Hot". We started working the "Glen Campbell Show" every week. We went on the road with Glen playing between his shows with a trio. It was such a strong trio, that Glen had a rough time following us. So, he'd come out and join the group for awhile, then we'd take an intermission, and Glen would finish the show with his band. Then Jerry started getting his own concerts, using other bands for his warm-up act, and he got his own T.V. show. Then, he decided to retire from the music business and do movies, so there I was - out of a job - sitting in Nashville without a gig! I started playing at the Carousel Club, and stayed there for a year and a half, doing one or two-day sessions a week. This club gave me the security I needed. Staying in town, I made $200 per week not counting the sessions. I'd go out on the road with Chet Atkins once in awhile, but the club would still pay me my $200. Once I started doing a lot of recording sessions, I had to quit the club. It was too much, physically, getting to bed at 3 or 4 a.m., then getting up at 8 a.m. I couldn't take it. Now, I do the same thing, (LAUGHTER), except I'm doing sessions. I am at the point now where I don't have to take night sessions. I'm able to do clinics and work with kids. I love to work with kids. Being able to give. I don't know if I have anything to give or not, all I know is that I wish I could have seen things like this (clinics) to give me a sounding board. Someone I could throw a question at, and maybe the guy would have known the answer. How many drummers have you seen in your local town that you ask, ".How did you do that?", and he won't tell you because he's afraid you'll steal his lick and make a million dollars. (LAUGHTER) A good clinician is there to answer your questions. I try to get people to ask questions. I don't like to follow a typed out clinic plan. Many times, my clinics get very loose because sometimes it's difficult to get people to ask questions. MD: WHAT DOES YOUR PRACTICE ROUTINE CONSIST OF? LL:

I've always practiced rudiments. When I first started, I bought a Frank Arsenault recording of the 26 Drum Rudiments. Today, I practice many of the same things. I practice an open long roll for 20 minutes with the metronome setting on 200. Another pattern I use that warms up the hands quickly is LLR-LLR/RRL-RRL. My wife, Debbie, helps me a great deal also. Whenever I get into a slump, she'll push the practice pad and sticks in front of me and says, "You're not THAT good!" (LAUGHTER) I practice all the rudiments every day because much of my playing is physical, due to the size concerts I do. Kenny Malone of Nashville is helping me a great deal with my reading. I wasn't able to read music for a long, long time. I now spend as much time on my reading as I do on my technique. Tommy Thomas who used to play drums on the "Breakfast Club Show", showed me many travelling patterns. Tommy calls them "travelling patterns" because they are rhythmic patterns moving from drum to drum. With all of these exercises, my practice time will run from 4 to 8 hours. With my schedule, the way it is now, I'm not able to practice as much as before, but I carry a practice pad with me and practice between sessions, or sometimes when they're running down songs, I'm sitting back there running off my doubles. My practice time is spent more on rhythmic patterns than on chop exercises. If you play relaxed and even, it will sound better than if you're tense and straining. My solos are based on rhythmic-feel things. I don't just sit there and dazzle you with single-stroke rolls and 18-inch biceps. (LAUGHTER) Louie can take something and play it very soft, but even, and it sounds, twice as fast as someone straining to play it. Every one of Louie's notes are even and in their right place. It's just perfect. MD: YOU USE DIFFERENT EQUIPMENT FOR RECORD- ING AND LIVE WORK. CAN YOU ELABORATE ON THIS FOR US? LL:

My PEARL Drum Set consists of a 6", 8", 10", 12" 14", and 16" tom-toms. For live work, I use two 24" bass drums with a hole in the front heads about the size of a 33-1/3 rpm record, and a piece of foam rubber approximately 3" thick lying in the bottom of both bass drums. For recording, I use two 20" bass drums with no heads on the front. The 20" bass drums seem to record a little better. For live work, I use R E M O Emperor drum hearts because most of the shows I play require power. When I was backing Elvis, I was using 3S sticks. I would have gone through any other heads like water. Today - for the clinic - I'm using a 5 x 14 P E A R L Jupiter brass shell snare drum. That's a really cutting snare. It will cut through anything. For studio work, I have 5 or 6 snare drums I use, depending on the session: a 5 x 14 brass shell, a 5 x 14 wood shell, a 6-1/2 x 14 brass shell, an 8 x 15 wood shell, and a 10 x 14 phenollic shell, which is my favorite for recording. The cymbal set-up is all AVEDIS ZILDJIAN. Starting from my left, I use a 17" paper-thin, a 15" thin, two 14" rock hi-hats on a stand sitting in front of my set, a 20" ping ride given to me by Louie Bellson, a 16" thin crash, a 20" swish, and my regular hi-hat cymbals are 15" rock hi-hats. I also carry 16", 17", and 18" flat-top ride cymbals, for various live and recording jobs. MD: HOW DO YOU TUNE YOUR DRUMS FOR RECORD- ING? LL:

First of all, my drum set in the studio has no coverings on the drums. I had heard that if you took the pearl covering off the drums, you would get more of a Hal Blaine type of sound. The pure fiberglass with no covering records well for (continued on page 21)

removers work very quickly and usually leave the metal scarred or pitted. Sometimes a light touch with emery cloth will remove heavy rust spots without leaving offensive blemishes. The refinishing of a wooden drum begins with the removal of all of the old paint and lacquer followed by careful sanding, paying special attention to dents and bruises. After final sanding with extra fine sandpaper, apply the new finish using a spray can of appropriate color. Finish the surface with a high gloss plastic or acrylic material, either spray can or brush. The same high gloss can be applied inside the drum shell as an extra measure of protection and for better sound. Peeling of old pearl or "full dress finishes" as they were called can be done using a thin putty spatula. For a replacement pearl or sparkle finish, follow the instructions provided by the supplier of such plastic materials when it comes to cutting, gluing and trimming the pearl. If it is decided to retain the original pearl finish which will have yellowed with age, use automobile type polishing compounds to provide a silky smooth base for a coat of regular wax. Metal drums are often protected with a lacquer which was applied to prevent tarnishing such as that occurring with brass.

Lacquer removers work well followed by buffing with a soft cloth and one of several name-brand metal polishes. Again, hard elbow grease will remove the ravages of time and a small hammer can be gently used to remove dents that have occurred. Care is required in polishing chrome or nickel plated fittings and hoops. Steel wool is too abrasive and will permanently scratch the finish. It is better to use a soft cloth and a metal polish or automotive chrome cleaner. A soft buffing wheel and fine buffing compound will give a new-like mirror finish to old plated parts. The final step in restoring an old drum is to photograph it for insurance protection in case of theft. A photograph will also aid in selling the drum at a later date. Protecting a restored old drum can be reinforced by placing the owner's name in an obscure place such as inside the shell. What is the motivation for searching, finding and restoring an old drum? Pride of ownership? An unusual challenge? An interest in history? A desire to display? Whatever the reason, finding and restoring relic drums can be a lot of fun and an immense satisfaction.

Relic Sonor snare drum. Model 377, World War I vintage, before and after cleaning. Note extra snare system under batter head.

Harvey Mason. World renowned studio drummer has appeared on over 30 gold and platinum records. He has three of his own albums on the Arista label, including his most recent release, "Funk in a Mason Jar".

ROGERS

THE SOUND THE PROS DEPEND ON.

Rogers Drums, CBS Musical Instruments, 1300 East Valencia Drive, Fullerton, California 92631

HARVEY MASON TALKS ABOUT STUDIO DRUMMING AND ROGERS.

"As a musician, playing in the studio gives you a very special kind of challenge. When you walk in for a studio date, you just never know what you might have to play. It might be rock, jazz, latin or a score for a movie. When the tape is rolling, the Studio Producer wants a person who can handle anything that comes up.

That's why you have to be well prepared technically for a studio job. You've got to be able to sight read, learn how to work with click tracks (without sounding like a robot) and play all different kinds of music. If you're afraid of what's coming up technically, R you just won't be free to do the even harder job of creative interpretation.

There is another kind of pressure, too. Sometimes the orchestra will do the same music over and over, with slight variations in music requested by the Producer. You must be perfect every time, because you never know which take will be selected. The more routine

it becomes, the more you must concentrate. This is the challenge.

The variations in studio music also require a special insight into proper tuning. That's one reason I think Rogers drums are so outstanding. Whatever studio tuning situation I come across, I've found that Rogers equipment can give it to you accurately...every time...without taking forever to adjust. I tune the set so that each drum sounds most resonant and has a distinct voice. In tuning, I want the tone to have a characteristic sound, not a specific pitch. There's another thing about Rogers. The MemriLoc hardware on Rogers drums gives me an exact duplication of my set-up every time. I know my set-up backwards and forwards. In order to relax, everything must be exactly where I want it...so I can forget about constantly re-adjusting positions of my drums...and I can really get into the music...in a way that makes my interpretation add a special kind of dimension within the total fabric of the music.

If you are serious about your music, you are learning all the time. You need to grow and you always want to get better. Part of that learning process involves your drum equipment. The more you understand your instrument, the better you can play. I tell people to check out the different kinds of drums and learn what really makes for quality. I think when they do that, they'll pick Rogers. It's like other kinds of things, you do a better job with good equipment. You sound better...you play easier...and you free up your musical creativity."

"IF YOU'RE

AFRAID OF WHAT'S COMING UP TECHNICALLY, YOU JUST WON'T

BE FREE TO DO THE EVEN HARDER JOB OF CREATIVE INTERPRETATION" -HARVEY MASON.

grimace everytime the leader calls a tune you don't like. 14) Get a large cowbell and use it as loudly and frequently as possible - especially during ballads. 15) Constantly fool around with the tempo and when the leader looks around, POINT TO THE BASS PLAY- ER! 16) Pick out a soft ballad. Wait for the right moment, and drop in a few piercing rim shots.

K E E P

EVERYONE

A L E R T ! 17) NEVER, relay requests from customers. What do they know anyway!! 18) Insist on playing a drum solo, but wait until the dance floor is full. Remember to play as loud as you can, and if people start to leave, K E E P IT UP! 19) Make a point of asking each band member how he puts up with working with a band like this. Take the piano player aside and tell him the sax man said he sounded like hell tonight. 20) Tell the leader, you don't care what the rest of the musicians say, you don't think he's such a bad guy. 21) Try to make out with the girl singer - especially if she's married to the leader. 22) Never allow any other drummers to sit in. If you do allow sit ins, loosen a few key nuts and bolts and keep a special pair of sticks that have been sawed half-way. Take all the other pairs with you. Don't forget to send him on his way with some little comment like "Gee, you used to play so good. What happened?" 23) On each and every break, MAKE YOURSELF SCARCE! Lose yourself in the crowd, take a walk, or hide in the men's room. Never go back with the rest of the band. Make 'em wait! 24) Drink

EVERY SINGLE DRINK bought for you. You can hold it. Everyone knows how much better it makes you play. 25) Save at least a couple of drinks to spill in the piano or on the music, and if you should happen to feel a bit sick, don't waste your act in the men's room. Save it for the bandstand. Although all or any of these 25 tips should do the trick, don't hesitate to add a few of your own. And maybe, just maybe, you won't get called again, which'll leave that much more work for poor guys like me.

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AVEDIS ZILDJIAN COMPANY PO Box 198 Accord, MA 02018